Summary
In this episode Sasha and special guest Keila Kilgore dig deep into the importance of holding space, taking the time and energy to understand yourself, and so much more. The episode may start off slow, but the value compounds as the episode goes on. Amongst the personal stories and testimony shared by both Sasha & Keila, you’re going to want a notepad handy, because Keila shares so many fantastic takeaways and mic drop moments you’re going to want to remember.
Get yourself into the Intentional Abundance Community on Facebook for some conversation, resources, and more pertaining to this episode: https://www.facebook.com/groups/IntentionalAbundance/
Keila is a wife, a mother of adult children, and a woman that has always found work to be her play. She is a Licensed Professional Counselor (LPC) and the owner of ‘the Art of Creative Dimensions, Inc’ as well as the Counseling & Wellness Center in Hillsdale, MI. She is a multi-passionate mompreneur and driven beyond belief.
Her gifts and purposes include care and compassion while holding the space for others to explore and grow while often being encouraged and challenged to not settle or stay stuck but to explore their gifts and talents. Her passion is to learn and help others focus on understanding how life’s experiences can impact our overall health while encouraging awareness, knowledge, identification and utilization of resources to help build resilience.
She believes that most people are doing their best they know how and once they take a little time or energy to understand themselves more they are able to do things differently and generally for the better when having the space held for them to explore and discover.
Keila doesn’t have a website or contact information available at this time, but if you’re interested in digging deeper into the topics discussed in this episode and want access to some of the resources we’ve discussed, jump into the Intentional Abundance Community https://www.facebook.com/groups/IntentionalAbundance/
— Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/intentional-abundance/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/intentional-abundance/support
Transcription
Sasha Star Robertson 0:12
Hello sisters and thank you so much for joining us on another episode of the intentional abundant life podcast. I am so excited to share this knowledgeable guest with you today. And before I read her bio, I just want to share a secret, if you will. She is my aunt Keila, and funny story I remember back when I was in first grade and she was a substitute teacher for my class and it was so difficult for me to call her by her teacher’s name if you will. It was Aunt Keila and she’s like stop calling me that. So, super fun. She is a wife and a mother. She has a 23-year-old son and a 21-year-old daughter and my cousins whom I love. She has always found work to be her play. She’s a licensed professional counselor, the owner of the art of creative dimensions, Inc.
Also, the owner of the counseling and Wellness Center in Hillsdale, Michigan. She also works as a health coach and educator for Henry Ford Alliance health and is a certified teacher and school counselor serving as a K through 12th grade mental health specialist at Stockbridge community schools. Wow. Huge information. Is there anything you’d like to share?
Keila Kilgore 1:40
Yes, it’s Henry Ford Allegiance Health just so we know.
Sasha Star Robertson 1:44
Okay, what did I say, Alliance?
Keila Kilgore 1:47
Alliance. Yeah. That’s all good. All good. Now, I think that’s enough said. I’m a little nutty.
Sasha Star Robertson 1:58
Lots of hats. But you know what, what I love about it is it’s all in the same like, arena and industry. It’s all in your area of specialties and specialties is not a word. We’re just having fun with this episode. Series. I guess. One of the things I really loved when I was talking to Keila before doing this podcast is a couple of things that she shared with me that just really resonated with my message and my mission and really what God has put on my heart. And one of the things that she has said was that she believes most people are doing the best that they know how. And once they take a little time or energy to understand themselves more, they’re able to do things differently, and generally for the better, when having the space held for them to explore and discover. Do you want to share anything more about that? Like, where did that come from? I’m just that hits me hard. And I fully agree.
Keila Kilgore 2:53
I think for that it goes into being a child right? Being a child and kind of those things that we think about as we’re growing up and maybe the things that aren’t so easy or that we get challenged by when our parents tell us we can or can’t do or that we might get frustrated. It could be situations as a student in school, different stuff like that and as growing up having my own children or doing the work as a counselor, just really kind of understanding it and knowing that our parents, our family members, the teachers, you know, we all are kind of in the situation where we’re trying to do what we can and oftentimes the best that we know how it goes back to that same right. We know what we know. We don’t know what we don’t know. Until we know. Right? And with that, it just gives us a different perspective. And so, as a counselor, I have to really put that in play because if I don’t believe that people are trying I have to believe in the work that I do. Right and that aspect of holding that space for individuals. So I’ve learned more about trying to just make people feel welcome and helping acknowledge that they’re doing the best that they know how at that time, encouraging them to have that space to visit kind of what’s going on for them.
Sasha Star Robertson 4:22
That’s huge. One of the things that is a really big phrase like in the adoption community is know better do better. And I don’t know where it originated or anything like that. But just leaning in and just you know a lot of people I think going to adoption with certain preconceived notions and ideas and even their own motivations behind adopting and once you learn about adoption, education and adoption, trauma and all these other things, once you know better then you’re able to do better. And I think it’s very similar here just like you’re saying, like there were so many tools that are even, you know, thought processes and stuff I didn’t know about and, and I was doing the best that I knew how and I was drowning severely. And now I learned a lot and I have tools and so I’m able to approach, you know, situations and circumstances differently and have different outcomes because of that. So, super cool. And I love that you had pointed out like really, we have to take the time and energy to understand ourselves a little bit more and like how we relate to the world and so much more. So, very, very cool. Do you like, do you have any words of encouragement or advice or tips on like, if somebody is listening and they’re like, “Well, how do I take the time and energy to understand myself more like where do I go? Where do I turn? How do I find that?”
Keila Kilgore 5:52
You know, I think it’s different for each individual. I’m a little biased as a counselor however, we’ve got to start somewhere and so part of it sometimes I think about situations, again growing up or as I’m working I do a lot of work with teens, teens and youth. And then I do a lot with the parenting aspect of it. And, of course, the things that I thought I knew right from doing parenting when you’re dealing with different personalities and different character traits for individuals and then do it in a counseling realm. I encourage people sometimes you just step back. So if I’m talking to an individual themselves, for example, they might have other people right. So I think of the fishbowl concept. So there are themes that we can be so wrapped up in things that are so near and dear to our heart are so intertwined or were just like in meshed in different situations that we need to kind of step back and we need to take that this whole look at kind of what is happening. And oftentimes people on the outside can see some of those things. And we can often get very defensive, right? Very defensive because how dare they, they don’t know, they don’t know the details of what’s going on all of that type of stuff. So, it’s a fine line. It’s a fine line about listening and not letting others just kind of take over your life. And so, I would say first of all, just take note and look at for example, when I do counseling, I tell individuals, like if you have stuff that’s happened to you, you don’t need to talk about all of it. That’s my class. You don’t need to talk it all out. But if you do find that you’re getting stuck like a stick stuck in the mud, and you’re not making progress or moving but you’re not happy where you’re at, then you’ve got to possibly work through some of that and that looks different. So I would say checking ourselves, and then think about who’s a good listener, and it’s hard sometimes finding good listeners. People like to be heard, and so they don’t like using the two ears and one mouth. So it’s finding that and the reason why I’m a little biased with the coaching or the counseling is because we’re trained to listen. And we’re trained in a way that even though we do deeply care and we’re there to help others. We are not emotive. We are not immediately attached or connected with the situation. So we do have this space and we do have the training to be able to step back and allow whatever process it could be with a pastor or somebody from a church. It could be with a good friend and there might be a certain friend you want to talk about things. But I encourage you don’t just go to the friend that’s going to agree with you every time. Make growth when you can be challenged.
Sasha Star Robertson 8:48
Yes, check your bias, for sure. And I love that I love so many things about what you said because they’re like I do have friends that I they are my wise counsel like they’re they are the people that will speak truth to me. Because they’re bold enough and they love me enough to like even if it’s hard for me to hear and even if I’m just like, can’t believe she said that to me. But then I can easily turn around and be like, You know what that was for my good. She said that in love, you know and so I know, particularly one that’s on my mind and I’m like she’s just been there a lot and she’s just a friend from church like it’s not you know, she’s not licensed or you know a coach or trained or anything like that. But I do consider her wise counsel and she listens and, and she’s bold to say the truth but I agree with you too and like you know, finding somebody who who is familiar with you know, a trained ear to listen, really and somebody who you trust their insight and their counsel and where they’re receiving their insight and wisdom from, like you said, whether that’s a coach or a counselor or a pastor or a wise friend. And one of the other things that I wanted to touch on that you said was, you know, if you’re feeling like a stick in the mind and in, like you said, maybe you don’t need to talk about, you know, all the things that have happened in the past, but I know a couple of the things that you’re really into. One of the things that you made me do almost a year ago when I was there missing that I’m like, this is stupid, but I got so much out of it was the sandplay I know you’re also into yoga and meditation. I know. Lately, I’ve really been into breath work and just really taking the time to breathe and tap into that parasympathetic. Is that what it’s called systems. So I know that there are a lot of other ways besides talking about but I do find a lot of us in this day and age are verbal processors. We need somebody to hear somebody that’s willing to listen so do you want to touch on any of those other ways other than talking about that you know of that can be helpful?
Keila Kilgore 10:50
Absolutely. So I’m doing, I’m doing a plug but not intentionally, but I’m gonna play on words. So, you know, I even looked at so it’s funny. I laugh because I have actually planners from back in the day I have my planners, my calendars where I really kind of process through. And it was just a way for me to organize my thoughts. And so I think for every individual, it’s really important to kind of learn kind of what works for you. So for some people it might be literally making a list or it might be doing that pro and con list or it might be one of my favorite memes that I love to help people do isa web. And so it’s really kind of starting with a circle in the center. Putting your name in the middle, if that’s what we’re focusing on right now. So we’re focusing on ourselves, so I might put Keila in the middle, and then I do the little spokes off of it. So, this is back from taking that English class or creative writing class or something when you’re trying to come up with ideas. But then whatever you’re focusing on and I encourage people to do a no- directive, meaning just whatever comes up with something in that next circle, another circle, another circle, and then you continue spoking off of it. And the spokes will lead to other things that you’ll see it start to take shape about some different themes that are coming up. You could do it in a directed way. Meaning you might start with your name in the middle. And let’s say I’m trying to think about a job or I’m trying to think about, you know, what is my next step? What is my next goal and you can like lay out, like each of the different things to do those things that you’re thinking of. And then just to take some spokes off. I’m very much like you said into the sandplay, world play. I’ve done tons of training on that. And it’s just a different modality. It’s a different way to be able to process because our bodies do remember, they remember a lot and we do things through our five senses. I would say probably six, seven senses because there’s lots of them out there right our intuition being one and then our other our spiritual sense. But being able to use different things, whether it be collage work, whether it be reading a book, there’s creative journaling, that you can do any of that type of stuff that helps whether it be going out and taking pictures right to kind of do a photo journal, that type of process. So lots of ways.
Sasha Star Robertson 13:17
Wow, super, super huge. Like, I did not expect to go like all this. But you know, you mentioned the web thing and I’m like, You know what, yeah, I remember when I was like in the thick of counseling. I was instructed to make one of these webs and now you’ve inspired me I want to go dig it out and find it. And just like, you know, reread it I really love revisiting like, those powerful moments in my life because I know that sitting down and doing that web and I think for me, it was about it was about finding, you know like finding worth in myself. Am I valuable just for existing kind of thing, which is something funny enough in 2021 I really had to take some time wrestling with in digging back into but one of the other things you said I don’t even know where this quote came from. Maybe It’s like Dr. Lewis or something. Like that. I can’t read it. But it says scientists determined that it takes approximately 400 repetitions to create a new synapse in the brain, unless it’s done with play, in which case it takes between 10 and 20 repetitions and so I just thought about that when you talk about the sandplay or even just like this photography, and things like that, that can feel more like play like joy and just how much easier it is for our brain to like, associate goodness with that. I don’t know I just somebody had shared that earlier today and it really popped into my mind when you mentioned that so,
Keila Kilgore 14:47
Well, I’m going to take off on that one real quick too, and just speak about that. So the synapses, the way that our body or our brains kind of connect and it’s through it looks like this. It’s basically the synapses and they communicate right they have this connection together. And so when we get stressed out what happens is this, and so we’re not making that connection, right? Those fingers are not reaching out to each other to have that communication. And so that can happen when we have stress cortisol that continues to run through our body. And so those types of things can kind of break down their communication, their career thinking that type of thing. And then I do the health coaching, right and so all about coaching is creating habits better, it’s changing our habits. It’s like if we take something away, we’ve got to put something else in there. That’s a positive, and it takes that repetition, but we were acting on it and that gets us into some of those things like, I used to hate it when somebody would tell me that fake it till you make it like act like you’re happy and it ticked me off. But you’ve got to make that change. Like we’ve got to get ourselves in that role. And we’ve got to practice. So, yeah.
Sasha Star Robertson 16:00
No, I hear that. And I think it’s really important, really powerful because, like I know a lot of times I’m talking to moms and a lot of moms with littles at home like their kids are six years old and under. A lot of the women that I serve and maybe a lot of the women that are listening on here today, and it’s like that’s a very stressful time and like you’re constantly putting out fires and breaking up fights and like there’s messes everywhere. Hopefully, it’s not actual fires, but like metaphorical fires, right? But like the stress cortisol is high and like you said there’s a breakdown of communication. And it really like your emotional brain takes in in your like logical decision making brain steps out and it’s almost like that fight or flight. Right? That’s like the kind of state that you get into when you have that. Right, stress cortisol elevated.
Keila Kilgore 16:49
Yes and freeze. So we often talk about fight and flight but we forget about the freeze and so honestly a lot in this day and age I see a lot of people do freeze so the fight part remember can be literally put up the dukes and let’s fight it can be with words. And so people don’t think about that. The flight is avoidance or just getting out of here, like walking away. And then if you have opposites that are dealing with that you get somebody walking away while somebody is fighting and so they’re getting more frustrated because. And then the freeze looks like just shutting down like just not like almost being, anyways, not being able to do something just kind of shutting down in that way where you just don’t do anything. And so we forget about that.
Sasha Star Robertson 17:39
Yeah, it’s like the like the disassociation as actually talking to somebody the other day about excessive yelling, right when like when a little kids being yelled at all the time and they’re yelling all the time. That’s what I was like, oh, yeah, they’re in flight mode. They’re not even there. They float away. They’re gone. But really what they’re doing is they’re just freezing. They’re just like, they’re disassociated, essentially, like, blocking it out. They’re not getting up and walking away because that’s going to make the fight and the other person even worse. They’ve almost been trained to just freeze.
Keila Kilgore 18:08
Yeah, they’re putting their armor up right so they can kind of shut it up. One thing I am going to say about that because you talked about working with littles I’ll share a quick story about a time because I am a busy person. I’d like to do a lot of things that some people realize, but I can remember we were building our house and we, I had an ice cream place and I think I was doing school counseling. Yeah, I was a school counselor at the time too. But my son was two years old at that time and we were building our place and we were walking up the stairs and I must have been pretty stressed out about something and I can remember him stopping and peeing on the stairs and I looked at him I was like what, you know, our new house are like, What are you doing? Like he’s just peeing. He had been potty trained and but what he did is he just peed and I was, and then I had to catch myself. And I realized, oh my gosh, this poor kid like we are going, going going and my husband was working on stuff and he’s got his own jobs. And here’s this little guy, he was doing what he had control to do. And he was like you know, he was pissed off. He was done with kind of where things are at and he was letting me know like he’s tired of, and so I had to stop and I had to breathe. And so I just share that. We have to be careful. You know, we got whatever going on. And our kids are like animals right? They sense it, they feel that energy. And we’ve got to keep that in mind. So when we can calm down. That is something for us to be aware of.
Sasha Star Robertson 19:41
Yeah, I love that and I thank you for sharing that and even just like talking about this freezing and we talking about yelling like this is, so I just got back from this like little retreat and whaever. And a big part of it was like I’m not proud of the way that I’m showing up as a mom these last few weeks and I have been yelling and I don’t want to yell at my son at all, like ever. And and I have been raising my voice and I’m just like I don’t like this and so I did I had to take the time to step away and give myself that fishbowl perspective like you’re talking about the outside looking in okay, what is actually coming up in me and why am I doing this? Why am I having these responses? He’s two. Just like you’re saying like, I love that you said kids are like animals because I often before I was a mom compared other people’s kids to my dog and then now people are like oh, compare your teeth to my cat. But I’m like no, like, they’re like, you have to train them. Right. So, but also that split up another story in me about like, I remember when we were stationed overseas, I was a babysitter for a little boy his dad deployed and he was potty trained and I would be the one to pick him up from preschool and take him home like do some homework. Just till mom got home from work. And he had really regressed on his potty training and was all the time like, you know, going number one and number two and his pants and that was one of the things she was the mom was really embarrassed by it. And I’m like, Look, this is the one thing this kid knows how to have control over in his life. Like his dad is gone halfway across the world. He doesn’t understand you know, and so it was one of those situations where it’s crazy because I was like, played a big hand in re potty training him and she really like thank you and appreciated me for that. Which also speaks to me because I’m kind of terrified to potty train my son. So we’re waiting till he’s ready to talk about it. We have fun like you know, it’s not, but he’s just not showing signs of being ready and was really resistant. I’m not going to push. But I wonder too how much my energies playing into that. Now we’ve mentioned it so I think these stories are always fun and just really put a real, real life emphasis into the podcast. So super funny. I know I remember the story that I remember when it happened that you shared about your son. And speaking of, right, you’re my aunt and whatever else and so I actually had Keila fill out a form like I do for all of my podcast guests and something that she wrote in there just like I was blown away and so I just want to read it to you guys because it really resonates with my heart and then Keila, you’re welcome to like add anything to it. And I just think it’s a really beautiful and powerful message. And I see a lot of this in myself too. And so she said she has the gift of seeing the big picture while also understanding the minute details. She’s very diverse and driven. Some of her gifts and purpose include care and compassion while holding the space for others to explore and grow. talked about in the beginning, will often be encouraged and challenged not to settle or stay stuck, but to explore their gifts and talents. She has a gift of entrepreneurialship which technically isn’t a word, she’s gonna stick with it. And the love for exploring learning, coaching and teaching, which I don’t know, I just love all of that. Like, is there anything that you want to add to that? I just think people needed to hear that and I don’t know why but
Keila Kilgore 23:07
I think you know, one of the biggest things I see if I can get the saying right, when the student is ready, the teacher will appear. Right? And so it’s one of the deals. Even as I’m counseling I did not do things perfect. None of us are perfect, right? We are not and so, there are things that I definitely would do differently as a mother. There are things that maybe I wish were done differently in my life as growing up. But I tell even individuals when I’m working with them, is you know, do the best you can right do the best you can sometimes we got to do it for someone else. But it’s keeping that awareness that we we can really learn when we’re teaching because we hear the words come out of our mouth and then we got to reflect that. So I even have to be careful that I am not showing more grace to my clients than I do my own family.
And that’s hard. It’s a hard thing because right we’re emotionally attached. And so this is one of those things where they say that you don’t counsel your friends and family. It’s there for a reason because it becomes very tough. It becomes a very hard thing. Because you do have an emotional attachment again, when I do counseling when I’m teaching I do I tell the kids I tell the teams like you guys are my kids too. Like you are my team too. You know and you’re like family to me because I do want the best for them. But it is different when it’s coming back to our own home. So sometimes I’ll have stuff that I’m saying to a parent that I’m working with because I do a lot with that. And I have to remind myself to take note, take note because as you’re saying this are you hearing yourself and then knowing that I need to do differently in my own home.
So thinking of that and then I just, you know, it’s hard. The hardest thing to watch. Somebody stay stuck and it’s something that I it’s been my motto like I have to be careful because you can also take that to the nth degree and not staying stuck and then constantly trying to change and it goes back to that same wherever you go there you are. And so sometimes we do have to play in the mud a little bit. In my horse world. I do you know the equine assisted therapy we talk about chewing on it, sometimes when horses are thinking they’reequine-assisted chewing, and so sometimes we got to chew on it. Sometimes we have to stick it in our little toe for when we need it later. And I don’t put all my eggs in one basket. But I don’t recommend that for everybody because that’s not for everybody either. Sometimes it’s easier for people to just focus on one thing. So we have to be careful that we’re not also placing our judgment, our what works for us. I don’t expect anybody to try to do the things that I do schedule wise. I maybe do have high expectations a little bit, but I don’t expect or want people to be as nutty as I am is my enemies differ in different in some of it probably out of avoidance for certain things, but it’s what’s worked for me now is what I’m doing.
Sasha Star Robertson 26:18
Yeah, I love that. I agree and it’s one of my big models that I stand on is like we’re not cookies. We can’t all fit in this like cookie-cutter model we’re human beings and we all have different experiences and different perceptions and different size backpacks that can carry different loads. We all have like you were you were saying report different resiliency factors like it all adds up to be who we are. We are unique individuals and I am the same way it was just because I can carry a rucksack with 55 pounds doesn’t mean the next guy can’t just because I didn’t spend 10 plates in the air and only dropped one of them doesn’t mean somebody else is going to be the same. And so I laugh when you say that because like Robbie said, where do you think you got it. And I can’t I’ve learned that too, but I can’t hold anybody else’s expectations and standards that I hold myself to.
Touching on the other thing you said learning by teaching. Every time I have a conversation with one of my clients I learn from it and I think it goes back to that holding the space too. Because really they say words and I repeat their exact words verbatim back to them or they say words and they’re like, I can’t believe I’m saying that sounds stupid now that I’ve said it or whatever else, you know, they’re able to just like see from outside perspective, but also, you know, I feel like it’s really cool how God brings people together. And it’s a place of gratitude that I’m sitting in right now. Because every single one of my clients has brought up something that is something or something for me. And I can give them advice and I’m like yep, and you need to listen to this to Sasha you need to do this to Sasha and so it’s been a really cool space to be in where, you know, I’m playing air quotes, I’m helping them but they’re also helping me. And so it’s reciprocal and it’s really cool. That learning by teaching model.
So one of the things if you are local in Michigan, to where Keila is her and her daughter are finishing up their yoga teaching certification. They’ve been in the process of creating a Zen Den to offer a variety of yoga classes including a focus of so many different things self care, stretching, exercise, mindfulness, meditation, relaxation, the list goes on. And so they’re going to be offering classes soon in exchange for constructive feedback. And they’ve also got different goodies that you can jump into and purchase in their entrance which I love these play on words. But I just want to make sure that if you are local in Michigan and you knew about that resource, and Keila is there anything else you want to add about that or where people can find you. Maybe there’s not friends or family but people who are listening in Michigan that might be like, maybe I do need to get out of this stick in the mud place. Maybe I do need counseling, what advice or tips would you have for them i that too?
Keila Kilgore 29:19
So I think a couple of things. So I’ll go to the to the yoga type aspect of things. This goes back into that teaching. Like I never take the time to kind of slow down in a lot of ways, but I’ve heard so many positive things about yoga. And so it was my way to force myself to do the work. So if I take it to teach it then I know that I’ve got to focus that energy on it and so coming with that I just encourage, there’s all kinds of spaces there actually are a ton of different yoga spaces and I encourage you to try it. Be brave about it. Like just check it out. There’s a lot of online you can start off doing it that way to kind of be able to acclimate yourself. I went in not knowing anything, but it’s pretty cool and even just the breathwork. So, with that, like we are just kind of getting started kind of checking it out.
Like when it comes to like even the counseling like it’s tough right now. It’s like one of the things that we have got to do so much work on. You know, I laugh, I was a school counselor for many years and then they were kind of downsizing when I left from the elementary I was at. They didn’t fill my position. And Lordy be! Have a pandemic and all of a sudden they realize that mental health is a thing and now they’re hiring people left and right.
So that can be the hard thing right? Sometimes finding counseling, and because it is a tricky thing I encourage individuals sometimes to start off with your insurance company. If you have insurance start off that way. Find out who their providers are in your area. you could also check with your Primary Care Doctor. Starting with a doctor helps get you linked in to resources that they may be aware of. And check around with friends. We have got to quit this stigma on mental health.
And going to a counselor is not just, a lot of times people think about it like grief and loss and really kind of heavy stuff. But we need to realize grief and loss actually goes on in a lot of ways, right? There’s a difference between the death of somebody super close to us and those types of things. That is a certain grief and loss, but we are grieving and losing a lot of different stuff each day. I don’t want to minimize grief and loss, but it also can be about building goals, about just bettering ourselves, or just checking in, having that stabilization for ourselves, or just wanting to do well. That’s okay too. So, if you have insurance call to find out. Cause that’s the really important thing is if you’re expecting to use insurance. Otherwise, if you don’t have insurance, maybe look into pastoral. You could do that as well through your church. Oftentimes they will offer services there. If it’s somebody that’s of college age there are counseling centers that are on campus and there’s also community mental health that can start off. So, a lot of times the community mental health will take care of like Medicaid for individuals. And then the other thing is that you could get on the computer and look and narrow things down. Sometimes it is, it’s word-of-mouth.
And you’ve got to understand about counseling or coaching or any of that, they’re all different individuals that are out there doing it. The more that you are honest and the more that you show up in that space and help them, it’s like you wouldn’t go to a pizza place and just take whatever pizza, well I might! But you wouldn’t just take whatever pizza. You would expect to order what you wanted. And so help that counselor, help that coach, know what works for you. The tough thing is, and like Sasha mentioned very much in counseling it is holding that space and allowing somebody to kind of talk their talk and then hear themselves. You know back in school or nowadays, too, they even take like a PVC pipe and they create the little phones for the kids. So that way they can read their story. They put their opening towards their mouth and the other opening towards the ear so the kid can read their story and hear it. Because we process things differently. And so it’s almost that same concept. Just to know that having a counselor there’s a lot of training where people are just listening. People are like, “I don’t want to have somebody just listen. I could talk to my dog and hear myself.” But the other part is knowing that if you do want somebody that’s going to challenge you a little bit more. Let them know that. The other thing is, call yourself out on it. If you’re just going there and you’re yakking and telling a bunch of bull, you’re loss. You’re cheating yourself. I just want to share that as well.
Sasha Star Robertson 30:13
That is so huge. There are so many things that you said that I just really want to touch on. One thing is like to quit the stigma on mental health in counseling and I feel like this, that ties into coaching too, but touching on the counseling aspect first, like, I mean, when I went to counseling and therapy, I was a very broken person. I was desperate. I was in such a bad space, like I didn’t want to live anymore, do not get to that point. And I think a huge part and reason that I got there is I allowed myself to. I almost forced myself to because I couldn’t go unless I was broken enough, right? And so you don’t have to be in that space. You could have one small thing that you’re trying to overcome and to go seek guidance from a counselor and overcome it like that. Or you can sit in it and let it spool and dig a deeper hole and become something that it doesn’t need to be just by trying to grip the wheel and fight it on your own. And so just to encourage that, like going to counseling does not mean that you’re broken. It’s not a bad thing.
And just like you said, a lot of times it’s just hearing, allowing yourself the space to really explore how you feel and what’s going on inside, getting the stuff out but doing it with somebody who is trained with a listening ear, like you said, the first couple of months that I was in counseling was just talking. And then it was the trained ear of my counselor who realized I was suffering from PTSD and recommended some EMDR therapy and it changed my life. And had I not had that I can’t even imagine where I would where I would be today. Right? And so it’s just it’s allowing yourself to have that space but to do it with somebody who’s able to have that outside look and really be trained on techniques and things that can help you. I know a lot of people won’t go to counseling because then they’re like, I don’t want to be prescribed medication. I was never on medication. And my husband, he says, yeah, he thinks everyone should go to counseling. Everyone should have a counselor. And I’m like, Yeah, I agree. Right?
And then I feel like there’s that space to where life coaching comes in. Because I’ve heard somebody say this, which I don’t know if you would agree with it necessarily, but like counseling is a lot looking at the past of what you’ve been through and overcoming it, whereas coaching is more so looking at the future, where do you want to go and help bridging the gap to get there. And so I can see sometimes the small area of overlap, but definitely two different fields, different approaches, and training behind them. But even people look at coaching and like, you don’t need a life coach. Does anybody need a life coach? I don’t know. But do you want a life coach? Do you see the value and benefit in that? Do you see this particular person in their style and their training in the way that they’re showing up being somebody who’s able to help you get to where you’re trying to go?
And so that leads me into what you were saying about you know, be honest and show up and every counselor is different. I’ve been to many different counselors in my life and some I found way more helpful than others. And so it’s you can’t just go to one and be like, counseling, it’s not for me. So I want to encourage any of the listeners in that, that if you go to one and you don’t feel like it’s for you speak to them. Maybe they do have tools and techniques and approaches. I remember one of my counselors that I went to I was like, Well, I didn’t want to hire you because you’re not a Christian counselor. And then she had explained to me licensing requirements whatever, she can’t list herself as that because yada yada all these state requirements, but she shared in the faith and she was willing to use whatever techniques I saw best. And so it was really cool to have that space and so you can’t just try one and call it quits. So yeah, be honest. Show up. Do the work. Like it’ll take you far.
Keila Kilgore 34:16
Yes. And one more thing I want to share because it just made me think about this too. So as we’re talking to mamas, right, and sometimes mamas have those significant others that they are working with or Papas or dads or whatever. You know, sometimes you might be dealing with some frustrations in the relationship because it’s the hardest work that we do. And then when you’ve got two different people that are on that playing field in it, it makes things tough. It brings tension like if you if you’ve got one parent, that’s kind of like the hardcore you got one that’s kind of really relaxed, that creates some tension, right? And so, the other thing is if you do feel like you need to go to counseling or there is something going on in your relationship as a couple. Understand that sometimes you just can’t get that other person to go. You know what, you got to let that be. Because again, you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make them drink, but you can still do your work. And so I encourage you sometimes and there’s the prayerful wife, there’s the prayerful husband, sometimes we’ve got to do our work on ourselves because it’s about our perception and the way that we’re showing up. And the way that we’re processing things. I got to remind myself of that all the time.
Sasha Star Robertson 35:22
I’m over here like yes, yes. Like clapping not too loud because I didnt want to interrupt, but yes. Do your work. And even you mentioning that thinking back. I had a lot of work to do in myself and I don’t think my husband ever would have considered going to counseling. I went to counseling, because I knew I needed to and I wouldn’t say we were having problems or he was having problems. I would say I knew, but believed you know, a lot of the problems were my own to work with her. But then I was going to counseling and he saw the growth and transformation and the change in me. And he thought, well, heck, maybe I need to go to counseling. My problems did then end up producing problems in our marriage and in our relationship. A lot of it’s stemming from me. And we started going to marriage counseling too. And so we’ve done it all. We’ve done the whole gamut. But the thing is, we care more about our relationship with each other and we care more about our mental health and how we’re showing up in the world, how we’re showing up towards each other towards our friends, towards our other family members, towards our kid that we’re willing to do the work and so I love that you had said that is like do your work. Focus on what your contribution is and where you can improve to make the situation better. And a lot of times like that speaks volumes. People want to improve themselves and they want to remain in your space when you’ve done the work. So thank you for saying that and pointing it out because super huge.
Keila Kilgore 37:03
Amen. Amen.
Sasha Star Robertson 37:05
Awesome. Well, I am going to drop information in the show notes of where you are able to have any resources, whether that’s reaching out to Keila, finding out about this Zen Den, or maybe we’ll even drop some resources just for where you can look for a lot of the different things that we had mentioned and if you have any further questions or any comments, definitely jump into the intentional abundance community. Keila is in there because like I said, she’s my aunt. And so we can get some more information to you that way don’t hesitate to reach out to me. If you are needing a listening ear, I can direct you to her or many other resources that I have or even reach out to the people in my community and find you any help or assistance that you might need. Remember, we’ve gone through so much in here today that I can’t even my head is spinning so we’ll definitely have to sum this up and give you guys a closing recap. So jump in the community and we’ll probably plug some resources in there for you. Thank you so much for listening, and I hope you all have a blessed week.
Keila Kilgore 38:17
Take care of yourselves. Do the work.
Intentional Momlife with Jesus 